Comments on: GM Wind Tunnel and Brochure http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure Yesterday’s Look at Tomorrow Thu, 17 May 2012 04:45:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Tom http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/comment-page-1/#comment-1451 Tom Sat, 18 Sep 2010 21:29:03 +0000 http://deansgarage.com/?p=1932#comment-1451 I have a GM Tech Center made and tested 3/8 clear plastic wind tunnel model of the 1986 corvette pace car convertible frame. It was vacumformed off of 3/8 scale wood models. Every section is just like the full size car. Up until the mid 80's, there was a building on the south side of 12 mile, that was full of wood and clay 3/8 scale model cars from the 50's to the 70's. I have a GM Tech Center made and tested 3/8 clear plastic wind tunnel model of the 1986 corvette pace car convertible frame. It was vacumformed off of 3/8 scale wood models. Every section is just like the full size car. Up until the mid 80′s, there was a building on the south side of 12 mile, that was full of wood and clay 3/8 scale model cars from the 50′s to the 70′s.

]]> By: Ron Will http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/comment-page-1/#comment-439 Ron Will Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:37:01 +0000 http://deansgarage.com/?p=1932#comment-439 During the mid 1970's I was interested in building a 3 wheel car. The profile shape was akin to a wing. I was worried that at speed it would lift off the ground and try to fly. Corvette designer, Randy Wittine, did a lot of tunnel work at the time. He talked to the engineers who ran the tunnel and we figured out a way to get my model in the tunnel for testing. This was in the small tunnel at the North end of the Tech Center, before the new big south tunnel was built. Each GM tunnel project was budgeted a certain amount of tunnel time. They often did not use up the full project time. They said to keep my model handy for one of these times and they would slip my model in to use up the rest of the time. The engineers were also very interested in running a new shape in the tunnel other than the standard boxy sedan. They even built a special cross bar for the tunnel to hold my single rear wheel. I built a 3/8 scale model and kept it in an old Cadillac hearse at the Tech Center. In June of 1975 the word came. "Get your model over here fast. We can run your model." It was great fun. We did ink drop tests and smoke tests with full instrumentation of Cd and lift. As it turns out, we put a small wing on the back and ducted the air for the radiators thru the bottom and out the back. This removed any danger of lift and thats the way we built the full size car. <em>(Ron’s 3-Wheel Phantom will be the subject of a future post—Gary)</em> During the mid 1970′s I was interested in building a 3 wheel car. The profile shape was akin to a wing. I was worried that at speed it would lift off the ground and try to fly. Corvette designer, Randy Wittine, did a lot of tunnel work at the time. He talked to the engineers who ran the tunnel and we figured out a way to get my model in the tunnel for testing. This was in the small tunnel at the North end of the Tech Center, before the new big south tunnel was built. Each GM tunnel project was budgeted a certain amount of tunnel time. They often did not use up the full project time. They said to keep my model handy for one of these times and they would slip my model in to use up the rest of the time. The engineers were also very interested in running a new shape in the tunnel other than the standard boxy sedan. They even built a special cross bar for the tunnel to hold my single rear wheel. I built a 3/8 scale model and kept it in an old Cadillac hearse at the Tech Center. In June of 1975 the word came. “Get your model over here fast. We can run your model.” It was great fun. We did ink drop tests and smoke tests with full instrumentation of Cd and lift. As it turns out, we put a small wing on the back and ducted the air for the radiators thru the bottom and out the back. This removed any danger of lift and thats the way we built the full size car. (Ron’s 3-Wheel Phantom will be the subject of a future post—Gary)

]]> By: Ron Will http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/comment-page-1/#comment-438 Ron Will Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:57 +0000 http://deansgarage.com/?p=1932#comment-438 I remember one time when a model with a very sharp vertical grill design came back from the tunnel with very poor ratings (probably a Cadillac). The recomendations were to soften the radius for the top edges of the grill. Bill Mitchell reviewed the results and said, "I don't know which direction the wind is going, but we're not going that way." That was the end of the recomendation. I remember one time when a model with a very sharp vertical grill design came back from the tunnel with very poor ratings (probably a Cadillac). The recomendations were to soften the radius for the top edges of the grill. Bill Mitchell reviewed the results and said, “I don’t know which direction the wind is going, but we’re not going that way.” That was the end of the recomendation.

]]> By: Dr. Richard M. Andres http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/comment-page-1/#comment-409 Dr. Richard M. Andres Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:10:04 +0000 http://deansgarage.com/?p=1932#comment-409 I am pleased to see the pictures of the GM tunnel. I did most of the design of the airpath, fan and counter rotation vanes, etc. while under the employ of Sverdrup & Parcel. I worked closely with Kent and Gino at GM. It was my first concrete tunnel and the heater/cooler was deemed necessary. Seeing the fan picture on the cover of Science Illustrated was great. Dr. Richard Andres I am pleased to see the pictures of the GM tunnel. I did most of the design of the airpath, fan and counter rotation vanes, etc. while under the employ of Sverdrup & Parcel. I worked closely with Kent and Gino at GM. It was my first concrete tunnel and the heater/cooler was deemed necessary. Seeing the fan picture on the cover of Science Illustrated was great.

Dr. Richard Andres

]]> By: Gary Smith http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/comment-page-1/#comment-296 Gary Smith Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:48:33 +0000 http://deansgarage.com/?p=1932#comment-296 This was in response to an email I received about designs becoming more aerodynamic because of CAFE minimums. Cars got more aero because the look got trendy, not to meet CAFE numbers. Designers got an idea of what kinds of forms and intersections worked aerodynamically, so that influenced their designs. Perhaps the look could be justified because of drag reduction, but if what worked aerodynamically didn't look good, it didn't see the light of day. Believe me. Engineering fiefdoms might beat the CAFE drums but nobody at Styling cared unless it catered to their own interests. Spoilers, ground effects, and air dams look aerodynamic, but most probably create lift and drag. When I was there I never remember a car going back to the wind tunnel to see if a air dam was effective. Costs too much and takes too much time to do that. Design (styling, really) is not a scientific process. When I was there decisions were based on a formula, V=S x O. Validity equaled salary times opinion. Now decisions are based on costs, clinics, and fear. It seems nowadays when something innovative comes out of GM, where they seemed to let the young designers have their way, then the outcome is just plain goofy. Like the new Camaro. Looks to me like a 3D cartoon with too few polygons. They changed the name of the place from Styling Staff to GM Design Staff and then to GM Design Center. But it is still styling. Under Earl and Mitchell Styling ruled the corporation. GM Corporate put Rybicki in charge ahead of Jordan to keep Chuck from being VP so long. During Rybicki and Jordan, Design Staff started to lose its domineering influence. That might not be necessarily a bad thing, but then the bean counters and fortune tellers ran the place. They gave us the Aztec. Now the government owns GM. This was in response to an email I received about designs becoming more aerodynamic because of CAFE minimums.

Cars got more aero because the look got trendy, not to meet CAFE numbers. Designers got an idea of what kinds of forms and intersections worked aerodynamically, so that influenced their designs. Perhaps the look could be justified because of drag reduction, but if what worked aerodynamically didn’t look good, it didn’t see the light of day. Believe me.

Engineering fiefdoms might beat the CAFE drums but nobody at Styling cared unless it catered to their own interests.

Spoilers, ground effects, and air dams look aerodynamic, but most probably create lift and drag. When I was there I never remember a car going back to the wind tunnel to see if a air dam was effective. Costs too much and takes too much time to do that.

Design (styling, really) is not a scientific process. When I was there decisions were based on a formula, V=S x O. Validity equaled salary times opinion. Now decisions are based on costs, clinics, and fear. It seems nowadays when something innovative comes out of GM, where they seemed to let the young designers have their way, then the outcome is just plain goofy. Like the new Camaro. Looks to me like a 3D cartoon with too few polygons.

They changed the name of the place from Styling Staff to GM Design Staff and then to GM Design Center. But it is still styling.

Under Earl and Mitchell Styling ruled the corporation. GM Corporate put Rybicki in charge ahead of Jordan to keep Chuck from being VP so long. During Rybicki and Jordan, Design Staff started to lose its domineering influence. That might not be necessarily a bad thing, but then the bean counters and fortune tellers ran the place. They gave us the Aztec. Now the government owns GM.

]]> By: Wayne Barratt http://deansgarage.com/2009/gm-wind-tunnel-and-brochure/comment-page-1/#comment-294 Wayne Barratt Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:50:39 +0000 http://deansgarage.com/?p=1932#comment-294 That's a great insite into the workings of the GM wind tunnel, Gary. I have been trying to find information about the wind tunnel at GM for over a year as I have been told by Jim Lutz that my ex. GM 1985 Chevrolet Cavalier Race Car actually spent some time in that very tunnel whilst the GM Performance Division tweaked the aerodynamic setup of that car. Wayne That’s a great insite into the workings of the GM wind tunnel, Gary. I have been trying to find information about the wind tunnel at GM for over a year as I have been told by Jim Lutz that my ex. GM 1985 Chevrolet Cavalier Race Car actually spent some time in that very tunnel whilst the GM Performance Division tweaked the aerodynamic setup of that car.
Wayne

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